Climate Change, Leadership, and Seven Actions to Save the Planet

In this special recap episode of Real Zero, hosts Professor Hugh Montgomery and Dr. Daniel Grant reflect on the highlights, lessons, and urgent themes from Season 1. They discuss the growing climate crisis, from the latest scientific findings to the stark realities of political and economic inaction. However, the episode is also filled with hope, focusing on the tangible actions individuals, businesses, and governments can take to drive real change.

Hugh and Dan revisit powerful insights from their guests, including the need to transition to renewable energy, divest from fossil fuels, and adopt sustainable lifestyles. They emphasize the importance of empowering others, sharing practical steps like switching banks, moving to green energy suppliers, and eating more plant-based foods.

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to the Real Zero Podcast with me, Daniel Grant. And me, Hugh Montgomery. So, Hugh well congratulations, this is the end of Season 1. We've done an awful lot to get here, and we've had some great guests along the way, and I thought today would be a really nice time just to like, have a bit of a reflection on the season so far, and what we might build up to when we go into Season 2. What have your general thoughts been? On climate change or life in the universe and everything, probably the climate change stuff for the last year, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ever more worried. All the metrics continue to go in the wrong way. So emissions are up again. We're not sure of the data yet, probably by somewhere north of 0. 8%. That's going to put us to somewhere in the region of 55 billion metric tons of CO2 equivalent released last year. It's become clear that we're getting runaway climate change. We've triggered at least 14 positive feedback loops now. Temperatures are accelerating dramatically. We've quite evidently going to bust through the one and a half degrees from Paris. That's gone. I'm absolutely certain. There's no way we can hold that one back. And we've still got, industries not changing people, not changing politicians, now becoming deniers. We've got Trump in charge as a climate denier. We've got Musk wanting to dismantle action on climate change. Got economists putting out counter narratives that, oddly enough, from their models, the higher the climate change temperatures get, The more GDP there is, they don't understand that when you get to three, five degrees, there's a mass extinction event, they can't put that in their models, so they just say it's money. It's a bit like chopping down a tree. Tree has economic value, but you have chopped the tree down. So, it's hard to say things aren't going the wrong way. The Lancet Countdown that we published in November on health and climate change, which we do, as you know, every year, 47 countries, Eleven of the indicators that we report on broke records again this year in the wrong direction. So, yes that's the negatives. On the positives, there are some people beginning to take action now. We're coming across some businesses that are. We've got a government in Britain are now taking very positive action on climate change, is to be welcomed, no matter what colour of your politics are. We may get some leadership from China. So there are some potential positives, but we've got to remember their potentials, the overwhelming weight on the balance Yeah, way. sure. And I, well, I suppose the most impressive thing for climate this year, though, it's probably this podcast, because if more people listen to this, they'll get more ideas about a) what's already happening and b) what to do about it going forward. So yes, know, we've talked about this before, this, this feeling of demotivation, people going, well, the politicians aren't doing anything, you know, everything I've just said. People say, what can I do? And if I act, that bloke Dan Grant, you know, he's down the road flying three times a week. He's not going to change. And even if he wasn't, what about the person in India or China? And you know, everyone's got a reason for not doing things. But as we've covered before, the advertisers tell us that every one of us has got seven people who love us or respect us enough that they'll do pretty much anything we ask. If we take action and lead, get those seven people to act, On the 12th cycle of inaction, if you could do that in a non overlapping way, 13 billion people, near enough, have changed. That's nearly twice the number of people on the planet. So if we all do our thing, and we get those people in our orbit to do the right thing, we could have this fixed this year, yeah, we absolutely could. And part of that fix is actually, you know, we've already begun to cover some of the things. In this podcast, but before we actually recap a little bit Hugh. And because i've been re listening to things along the way, you know We've been editing it down and it's thrown up some really interesting discussion points but you've already picked up on a few things that I know some people are worried about or interested in at the moment and I suppose the biggest thing is probably america, you know, donald trump's come back in He's the man back in October. You know, he said we will frack, frack, frack and drill baby drill. You know, he's coming back, you know, he's probably gonna turn over Biden's inflation reduction act. That's billions that will probably go the other way again. You know, big oil lobbied him an awful lot with about 75 million. So they say there's probably going to be a reduction in climate science funding, which doesn't hinders things in the US but also you know, because the U. S. takes the lead in a lot of these things, then, you know, you're not leading by example anymore and people might lose their funding for things too. So, what do you think? Is there, you know, now that Trump is in is it, is it, is it disaster? Is he able to do this? Or do you think things will not actually be as bad as some people are saying? Well, there's no disguising it to blow. If you've got a major world power pulling out, and you've essentially got climate deniers running things, who are frankly peddling false information. I heard Musk's, I don't know if you heard that, podcast he did with Joe Rogan recently, saying agriculture's got nothing to do with emissions, it doesn't matter what you eat, it makes no difference at all, nothing, not at all, it makes no difference. And it's just frankly wrong. 38 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions come from the food supply chain. 22 percent is methane. A large amount of that comes from belching cows, shipping, refrigeration. 73 percent of tropical rainforest deforestation is due to agriculture. It makes a big difference. But when these people speak with authority to huge numbers of people that's the big danger. So the first problem is you've got people with a lot of money And loud voices and either ignorance or vested interest. Peddling falsehoods, and that's dangerous because public and business tend to listen and follow the second. I think is the inflation reduction act. That was a massive win American economy. It was a really smart move. no matter what you think about the action on climate change, it pulled in vast sums of money into the American economy, and it made the rest of the world pretty much a desert. Everyone pivoted. If they were going to invest in green technology and green stuff, it wasn't going to be in Europe. It was going to be in America, and that's where the money went. When Biden was challenged on it by some European leaders, he said, Well, nothing to stop you doing the same thing. Why don't you do the same thing? So you could say, well, if America pulls the pin, Europe could do the same. Well, firstly, in America, he can't undo the whole of the Inflation Reduction Act, because it was carefully sculpted. to do pork barreling really for some Republican states to get it across the line. Hmm. a lot of money's got into Republican states and they're not going to want to lose it. So he won't be able to repeal the whole lot. Could Europe pivot and challenge? Yes, in theory it could. But unfortunately, I can't see that happening. The European project is unraveling this year. It's been another great tragedy. the German government essentially has collapsed the coalition there, the French government has just collapsed as we're recording this. The French government is increasing debt, another trillion down in recent years, so we've lost the European leadership. struggling with immigration Hmm. I can't see them pulling together an equivalent package, such as the inflation reduction act into this mix comes the poisoned well Trump might create in terms of tariffs. Because China the cheapest manufacturer at scale of renewable technology, essentially, and they've built that up very skillfully by co locating, the supply and construction and manufacture with the workforce and the raw materials. And essentially nowhere in the world Hmm. challenge that. And nowhere in the world would have the will to or can play catch up. If America it's going to stick massive tariffs on import for China, that's going to impact the production and efficacy and cost base for the production of those renewables. The problem will be if he leans on Europe to do the same, because This is the way America's behaved in the past, isn't it? You do what we do and if you don't do that, Hmm. squeeze your pips too. We're boycotting this person. If you don't, we'll make sure you suffer as well. If that's applied and Europe starts applying sanctions to Chinese renewable goods that will really impact the speed of their deployment as well. I think that's bad. and then the impact on science, as you say, is atrocious. If you, if you strip out a scientific base, it takes decades to rebuild it. Now, on the other side Hmm. Are there positives? Well, I think America's shot itself in the foot here because it's left a massive vacuum. In climate politics that China has stepped right into. And that's not in any way a criticism of China. We should be moving forward on climate change. They've seen the opportunity to do that. And yes, it's mixed with economic advantage, growing industrial base and economy, as well as political influence. But we do need to do it. And China has now stepped up to that. So I suspect we're going to see a pivot, an even greater pivot towards the importance of China in geopolitics which was a, an unnecessary forfeit in my view, coming from the United States. So overall, Hmm. yeah, I think it's going to be net bad. but the complexities of how net bad is going to be, I think, depend on these issues like tariffs, European funding opportunities and so forth. Okay. And you know, you did mention earlier as well that the Labour government's in power in the UK now, which is a bit more of a positive outlook. Yes. and yeah, tell us a little bit about why that's so positive instead. Well, I should make clear that I'm not a, I'm not a partisan politician. I make decisions based not on the brand, but on the policy. And if I'm fair to some of the Tory policies, there had been some good ones in the last 14 years. Hmm. I think they were the net balance was pretty terrible, but they did do some good things. They were partly neutered by their own fragmented party, which meant that they couldn't take the sort of action. I think there were people who wanted to be much more progressive on the green policies. I imagine actually Boris Johnson was one of those. But I think he was hampered by others around him. Labour have come in with a massive majority and they've just seized it and gone rushing ahead. The downsides are that they haven't prepared the ground well enough in my view. I think their PR has been terrible. It's allowed them to get wrong footed by reactionary forces in the press who are able to label things they're doing as nanny state or bad. And some of them actually have been badly thought through. so I think they Yeah, you know, they've got an A for effort and the D for execution in some regards on balance, though, very positive, a very clear signal to market that Britain is driving in this direction, clear commitment of capital, very clear plans for transitioning to the green system and power grid biting the bullet. Of the NIMBYists, the not in my backyard people, who don't want a pylon and don't want this and that. And I get it, I imagine if I lived in a rural community and there was a great big pylon appearing at the end of my road, I might be a bit pissed off about it, excuse my French. But, you know what, we don't have a choice. We face the collapse of the global ecosystem and economy and our deaths with it, unless we act. we have to do this. And they've bitten the bullet they've shown leadership. They've done things which they know to an electorate will make them unpopular, but they've done it because it's the right thing yeah. There's a long way to go. A lot to do with farming and decarbonizing there. We do need a better solution on how to balance the grid. So you're familiar with this. When the wind isn't blowing, the sun isn't shining the tide isn't dropping, the Mm in. Where's the power coming from? You've got a couple of choices. You have big connectors. So you the sun shining in Morocco. So you get the solar from there or the dams are busting full in Norway. So you use their hydroelectric and we export to them. So interconnectors will be part of the answer. Part of the answer is going to be though energy storage. It is possible to do it. It doesn't have to be batteries. You can use hot rocks or molten salt, or you can use geological pumping things up and down hills. You can make ammonia and ship it hmm. You can turn things into hydrogen. My guess is that we're probably going to end up with it being hydrogen storage in geological structures because we happen to be blessed with them in Britain in places near major cities. So, those are, those are big ticket items that are going to need to be addressed as we rush forwards with offshore and onshore wind, for instance. Yeah. I mean, so it's quite warming to know that, They are making some serious decisions right now, which are proving to be a little bit unpopular, but they'll be in for a while And I think it was who are we talking to probably Paul Ekins was saying that this is a precedent now going forward where you will not be elected going forward unless you have a good climate policy It's just laying that precedent forward, Well, I which is be right. I think for Good. it might be right. But I'm not that convinced. I still think there are people out there who were the people who voted Brexit, in my view, a mistake. Mmm. Because they felt Disenfranchised, not listened to, felt poorer, and they looked at a richer elite in other cities doing well from it, and it was a reactionary vote. And I still think, unless Yeah. well, that those people might just go, buy the story, that this money is wasted, it's all nonsense, we should, we've got oil, we should burn it ourselves, and in our podcast we rehearse why that's nonsense, it's money we drill out. Just get sold on the international market. It doesn't make us any richer. We buy us the same price that everyone else does, et cetera. But the wrong narrative is easy to sell. And there are lots of people, you know, we ended up nearly one in five people voted for the reform party who are the sorts of people Yeah. policies that would go against these actions. If on the day of recording they get the 40 million, they've, they've got reform, of course, got a new guy fundraising for them. He's put a million of his own in. He said he's going to raise another 40 and there's conversations going on. We're told with Elon Musk to potentially put in 100 million dollars. Mmm. put them up to over 80 million in the war chest. Twice what the Conservatives had to spend in their last election. Around a third more than Labour spent. And that sort of money can buy you power. So I'm Not as convinced now as Paul might have been when he made that recording. think there is a chance Yeah. this, this embedded view on climate change might be every bit as fragile as the Inflation Reduction Act was in the States. Yeah, you might be right there And I think I think the you know listening to some of the podcasts that we've done already a common theme is Communication and narrative and how we get messages across And I think going into season two I'm very keen to find a couple of experts who can talk to us about that kind of thing is how you mold psychology and change grander thinking Definitely needs to happen, doesn't it? absolutely right. And of course, people of a more holistic view, let's say, people like you and me as doctors who aren't really interested in making lots of money and, you know, I earn a good salary. I'm not denying that I don't. I'm not denying that I do but I enjoy my job greatly and I get reward from what I do. tend to be much less, militant vocal, aggressive in the way we present things. The people on the other side of the spectrum often regroup very quickly and effectively. And if you look, for instance, at the use of AI to swing votes, whether it's being done at nation state level, interfering with elections, or whether it's being done by pressure groups, most of that has been monopolized by people with an agenda that would be traditionally against action on climate change, for instance. And, but you're right, we need to use the same rule book as it were, which is partly about explaining the message to each individual person in a way that resonates with them. Without lying, because lying is always wrong. To say, well actually the thing that concerns you most is this. And this is where it fits into your belief system and narrative. The thing that's been abhorrent in Yeah, for sure. weaponized by others is because they've lied. We saw it with the Brexit vote. There will be 350, you know, yadda into the NHS. A lie, an obvious lie but they knew it would resonate with a core set of voters and so forth. So we must tell the truth, but we must better at Getting that message out. Yeah, it'll be interesting to talk to some people coming up soon And Hugh I just want to pull us back to just a couple of reflections I had when we've gone through this series. So first of all, just a general reflection personally I've had you know, I, I'm the layman in in this duo. You know, you are the expert and I'm, you know, I know a little, but not a lot. That's what we always say, but I've learned so much from talking to these experts that it's, it's almost too much. And I've had to like, go back and compartmentalize and go through. But it, it's nice that it pulls down into the, the seven acts, which we'll talk about just towards the end, I think. But. Yes fascinating things they've kind of like crossed my plate has changed the way that I Live my life actually in the last couple of months, so it's great and let me talk to you that though quickly though, is, is, because it's important Yeah, this, right? That you've made big changes to the way yeah. and you'll, I hope, tell me what they are in a minute. And they're the right thing to do, so you can feel good that you've done the right thing. Has it messed your life up though? Is your life less, is it more miserable, and is there much more penury and suffering involved? Or actually, is life pretty good? Because that's important for people to hear, isn't it? If, if, if your life is not in decimation and ruins. Yes. That's true. Well, I guess The three things that the most notable things is probably diets banking and just general Outlook and understanding so the first one that is a bit more, you know vacuous I I see the world in a slightly different way now, you know, if someone's talking about heat pumps I kind of understand what's going on now. And just the very landscape of the world I move in I'm, just seeing things a bit differently and i'm being able to Communicate my own way in, in, in a fashion I didn't do before, for example, you know, I gave a lecture at UCL just yesterday about urban design and active design because my background is in sport and getting people active through how we build cities. We can do that. But also, there's an awful lot about how, by doing that, you are also layering on ways to make the climate better and to make temperatures lower in the way that you do things. And I don't think I'd really considered that perspective so much that's great until that's of we started doing this. number seven on our list, which is, I can see in front of me on my board, motivate loved ones and those around you to perform the seven acts of safe work. So already done that, right? You, you have gone out, I've talked to you and others have, you've decided that you're going to change your messaging and you reached how many people in your audience yesterday? Well, there are about 20 masters students. But they're masters Hugh, so they're going to go on to make a big impact as well. 20. So even if 10 of them listen to what you said and change what they do and persuade some of their friends, you can see how this ripple effect really starts amplifying. Absolutely. The other thing is diet. I'm becoming more plant based. Yeah. And more, well, less dairy so that's been good, but more oat milk, although I'm not making my own oat milk yet, but it's, like you, I am slowly coming round to it, because it involves, you know, recipes and cooking and trying to do things right, and, you know, my other job, where I look at blood tests a lot, and I go through, you know, a few years ago, I used to look at blood panels, And I look at thousands of them. Okay, and if I look at the general blood panel a few years ago of Vegans, you know before the vegan diet really took off. They were really healthy like incredibly healthy Amazing cholesterol amazing sugar levels like absolutely fantastic. But nowadays I don't really see that. I do see it on some, but because of there's so much processed vegan food, which seems like an easy option, it's actually not so good for your health anymore. It's just as bad as everything else. And it does lead you down to like, you know, home cooked whole food, locally produced, that's the best thing you can do, and the more plant based, but it does involve that time commitment of, I need to cook and I need to think about it. there is that, but it also depends a little on whether you're a foodie, of course. If you're a foodie, whatever you cook is going to take time and investment because it's your hobby to do it. For me, It's true. much more food is fuel. So, I order one box of local, seasonal, plant based stuff, which is actually Riverford. There you are. Shout out for them. I don't have any shares. that's £15.30 every two weeks. And that pretty much feeds me for two weeks. So I'm living pretty much for a pound a day. I'm eating really well, and it doesn't take me long. If you like raw vegetables, that's really easy in the summer months. But in the winter, I get a giant big pan, shove in a whole load of different stuff, and I make myself a lovely vegetable stew. I don't get bored with it, because every day I've eaten a bit out of it, I add another different vegetable into it, so it mutates as the week goes by. And so it is quick Yeah. add chilli flakes to something to make it a curry, or I can, you know. So, I'm not convinced it is actually harder. more time consuming, and it's certainly not more expensive. but you're right. It takes a little bit of a change. We've talked about this. I think in one of the earlier podcasts, one of the things that really changed my ability to eat vegetables was Scott Jurek's book, eat and run. You know, when he run the Yes, yeah, you said ultramarathon man. and he won as a raw vegan. which I'm not suggesting everyone should be a raw vegan, but he put these great recipes in for things I'd never heard of, like shelled hemp seeds and yeast flakes. Which, I mean, we've talked about this before, yeast flakes, just taste of toasted cheese, they're just totally fantastic, so you can just put a couple of spoonfuls of that in and your meal is totally transformed. So, yeah, for me, those things made the difference. Anyway, so you've done your food, which we've said, is actually a really big ticket item here, it really makes a difference. It's a bit, I want to say as well, the thing I've learned, you know, you learn this when you do medicine, of course but it's about small sustainable changes, not the big, I'm going to go all in, because that doesn't really work. So, you know, eventually you're going to get to that big all in, but you're going to get there in a way which is right for you. that's right, and the, You are right, that bit of behavioural change we know, we're all the same. If you make the first step, you then generally very rapidly embed that step and you make the next one. I'm not a raw vegan. When I moved to largely vegetable based, actually that was pretty binary for me, I just did it and went, Oh, hang on, this is really easy and I never went back. But when you've done that thing, it also motivates you to go, Well, hang on, if I've done that, I really probably ought to do the other thing. Me about the other thing. So where are you in power and banking then? Well, so power hasn't really changed too much at the moment that's due to living circumstances. But the banking was a big one. So the banking, I moved from a pretty well known high street bank to Starling Bank, one of the new ones, which is on the list of you know, don't invest in fossil fuels or anything like that. And I have to say, first of all, the switch was incredibly easy. But also it's just a much better banking experience I know they've been in the news for a few things at the moment But on the whole I get notifications now when things get paid to me or I pay out and things are really useful for me which my old bank just does not have the system for so yeah I'd have to say that moving banks has been seamless easy and obviously it's having that impact which I know it's having but also it hasn't affected me at all In fact, it's made my life better I've heard this a lot. And one of, well, actually my, my surviving son was telling me he'd opened a bank account with Nationwide Building Society. Which again is a equivalent of a bank that doesn't invest in fossil fuels. And he's, I mean, again, I've no, I've got no vested interest here at all, just reporting his experience. And he just said that the moving expense was absolutely fantastic. And the customer service he's getting is great. So I think we're all focused on this fact. Aren't we on this now that just because it's the right thing to do, it doesn't mean you have to put up with terrible service or product. You don't anymore. Vegetarian or vegan food can be utterly delicious, cheap and easy. Your banking experience and the right thing can be fantastic. Well, yeah, and actually I want to pick you up on that because that's something that Paul Newman said when he was talking to us about food. And I think you brought up in New York you were talking about how hospitals are basically plant based on their menu to start with before the meat gets kicked in later on. That was a little while ago, we've spoken to him. Do you see any movements towards that in other parts of the world now? Or even, not even in hospitals, like maybe even in schools or hospitality or anything like that? Hmm. Hmm. schools and in prisons, actually, while you're touching on this, and you're probably familiar with these data, that in the, in the studies that have been done, if you look at moving people to unprocessed, what you said, non factory produced, plant based foods in schools and prisons. You get much better behavior, you get less violence in prisons, you get better behavior in schools, better discipline, and better learning. Now whether that's because the vegetables are good for your brain, whether it's because they're stuffed in the ultra processed foods and the processed foods are bad for your brain, a combination isn't altogether clear, but there's certainly evidence support the latter that these factory made foods are bad for your brain and other stuff is not so those data are there. I think we ought to see. a move. The labor government over here has made a commitment to a specific percentage, which has now slipped my mind. I think it's approaching 50 percent of food supplied to state funded institutions will have to come from British farms, which I think is a start. It's a little difficult sometimes in hospitals to just break old thinking. People won't like a vegetable based diet. it turns out in New York, they've got a 93 percent approval rating. Now, if we got Yeah, in British hospitals, we'd be staggered, wouldn't we? they've, they've, they've got yeah, ratings. People say, oh, you can't do it, it's too expensive. 56 cents less per meal in a New York hospital. And then people say, really. Yeah, of X or Y or Z in. Well, do you know what? America's a lot more litiginous than Britain is. And if they can come up with menus that are plant based that to their satisfaction deliver the sorts of requirements that are met, needed to be met by patients, I'm happy with that. We're seeing a move towards this in Germany now. There's a move to it in Holland. I'd like to think Britain could accelerate through and lead a little bit on this with our National Health Service. We are putting a grant in, actually, to see if we can get this funded to work out how to do it in Britain next year from the National Institute of Health Research. So yes, I'd actually, of course, some of the easy bit we talked about in the previous podcast, you know, if you just put the vegetarian or vegan option to the top, put a nice photograph of it there and call it the chef's special, 38 percent of people choose it for that reason alone. It's there you go, psychology again. We've really got to dig into the psychology of this next time. And Hugh, while you're talking about the NHS, actually you know, we were talking to Paul Ekins about how to make change on a, on a higher level, like a more of a policy level or a grander scale. And I know you're really passionate about, you know, how many people. Work for the NHS in the UK, what percentage of the UK population is that and how can a change in that In everyone who works there actually lead to massive massive differences it's. So yeah, what's your what's your NHS plan? the NHS is north of 1. 41 million people, and if you start looking in social care, it's more again. And if you look at the people who work in the companies that supply the NHS, it's more again. So, I don't know what the total number is outside the NHS. Direct healthcare is 1. 41 million. But it's probably, the penumbra, a great deal more than that. We are a relatively constrained ecosystem. Pretty much everyone who works in the health service. is doing it for the good of others. I know we all get paid, but I don't meet very many psychopaths in medicine who are only interested in themselves making money. So we generally tend to be beneficent. There is poverty in the NHS if you're a cleaner or a porter. and so forth, you can be paid poor salary. And indeed, in my view, nursing staff are still very poorly remunerated, Yeah. hard work they do. so there is a mixture of it across the suite. are more people who are better paid. There are people like me as a consultant who's on a good salary, we have the latitude to be able to make financial choices that are harder for some other people. As you say, we pointed out vegetable food can be cheaper. You know, your bank account isn't more expensive. There are things you can do whether you're rich or poor, but some of the choices deny the poor people. Anyway, the net result is the health service is slightly wealthier in terms of its staff, and we can all make those moves. Now that's a lot of people jumping together, and if we all jump together, the earth starts shaking. oddly, health professionals are still the most trusted profession, you know, despite that we've had hits from doctor strikes and all sorts. This year. They're still better trusted than journalists and politicians and others. people do look to us to what we're doing. And I think if they see doctors and nurses and other health care professionals making these changes. They're likely to say, Well, that Dan Grant, he's quite a clever fellow. He's a doctor and he's done those things. maybe, maybe I'll listen to Dan and I'll do the same. So I think we do have a leadership role as well because of the position we're in. We've talked about before, you know, the health service is still globally of 10 percent of GDP. And if you add in those other sectors, it's a lot more again. So we really could move the economy, we've just got to get those business leaders now. change and act and that requires us as individuals to be providing pressure, support as well. Telling people we're not going to Yeah you need to change, but also saying, thank you, Dan Grant Corporation, you've been fantastic and you've done the right thing. And support you. the same way, of course, politically, we should be shouting loudly when any party does something we don't approve of, but in this case, in my view, for Labour, what they're doing with climate policy, I will put a big shout out and say I'm enormously grateful for what they're doing and welcome. Yeah, yeah. Well, actually, let me just pick up on politics for two seconds because this is something that Tony Burden was talking about when we had a chat to him. He was talking about how politicians are even more short term focus than bankers. And he actually said, there's a lack of bravery. Those are, I think, his words. Now, Hugh, you've been You've spoken to more politicians than I have and you've kind of like moved in that world a little bit but how do you think, those conversations might go to make them a bit more brave, a bit more bold to, make those decisions which then again might have a top down effect? I think there are altruists in the world, but nearly all of us are selfish in some way. I include myself. I think we all have selfish drivers. And we need to substitute that. So if a politician is saying, well, hang on, if I rock the boat, then I'm going to get deselected and I have no job. Or if I push too hard with a government, the government gets voted out and I don't have a job. The thing to do is to play the long game. I would have to go back and say is there isn't a long game. You know, we've had these conversations before. And in fact, just before we were talking, I was pulling up the quotes. this is from the state of the climate report that came out about four weeks ago. We're now mid December, but it's opening paragraphs. We are on the brink of an irreversible climate disaster. This is a global emergency beyond any doubt. Much of the very fabric of life on earth is imperiled. This echoes the, you know, without immediate transformative action, we will have no economy. It echoes two years ago, without action right now, we risk missing a brief and rapidly closing window to secure a livable future. We're talking about our own survival of our children now. I would say to people, get why you feel you can't act without harm befalling you. But you've got to act selfishly, which is about you and your children surviving now. So, if you, even if you haven't got the, sort of, the selfless view for others, you've got to have a selfless view for you and for your children. I do think in general terms, people might respond to genuine, principled leadership, because it's been missing now in global politics for so long, and you're probably just about old enough to remember Margaret Thatcher getting elected. She just stood up and said, you're not going to like this, the right thing to do. got repeatedly voted back in. Yeah, from the front with what she believed in. that's what I think we need to see from everyone now, is, is the days when we used to do what was right because it was right needs to come back. yeah, that's a really good point and something that I think we should all take forward. Speaking of going forward, Hugh what's your, your, your quick reflection on season one and, and what are you looking forward to on season two? So I should say to listeners at home, you know, this isn't like going to come out next year, like a Marvel movie or something like that, you know, we are already working on season two. We'll just have a bit of a break after this episode while we get some more interviews in the diary. But Hugh, your general feelings about how we've started and what we want to do going forward. Well I think we've started reasonably. reasonably well. I've certainly enjoyed the conversations. And have had world experts in each of their domains. So we've been very lucky that people have prepared to devote their time. Next season round, we've got some politics, because I think that's helpful. Been sort of dropping the hints about behavior change. We've got two people who are prepared to talk to us. And they're pretty much the world leaders, not just on behavior change, but behavior change. in the climate world. we've got those people too. thought we might going to spring this one on you, Dan, because we haven't talked about this, but we've got some really good economists involved in the investment community, pension funds, and so forth, talking about why the economic models that are currently applied that say the world's going to get richer, the hotter it gets frankly wrong. I know it's obvious to you and me and anyone listening to this. That if you get to five degrees, have a mass extinction event, everyone dies, the world can't actually be richer. But the economic models don't work that way. So, that's weird. That would be helpful for people to understand. And then they can talk to their CEO next door neighbor and help explain things to them as well. I thought it might be helpful to start digging into some of the positive feedback loops, a bit more of the climate science. Because it's helpful to understand when people say tipping point or, know, binary weather state change or radiative forcing. What does that mean? What do we mean by a tipping point? What do we mean about a feedback loop? What do we mean by these things? So I think a little bit more of that would be helpful. and I think it's going to be quite helpful to talk to insurers about, economic impacts. bit more on the direct health impacts, which I think will be helpful. And I think it's sometimes helped to revisit things we've already done, because this is not a static landscape it's a dynamic one. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I should say we're also having conversations with people who you listening at home, you probably know who they are, because you might have seen them do things like Royal Institutional Lectures, or various TV shows for the BBC, or other channels as well. And so we've got a few big thinkers from some excellent fields. I'm looking forward to season two, Hugh, and I know you are too. I would say also, for listeners at home, if you If you think there's anything that's really worth us covering, you can get in touch with us, you can go through the realzero. earth website, you can get on our Instagram, you can go to realzero at thestealthdoctor. com with your ideas and we can take things forward from there. So, you know, here's someone like me who, like I say, I don't know much, but I'm, I'm, I'm invested in learning as much as I can. My knowledge has just shot up over the last season. I'm really grateful. That you asked me to do this because personally and selfishly i've really enjoyed it, but i'm really happy where we're going and what I want to do Hugh is finish today. Because it's it's really the foundation of everything you talk about. Can you just run us through nice and quickly? You know going into this break. What are the seven things that people can do at home starting today this week this month go So please just do them. Right. This is you've done most of them, Dan, they're very straightforward. So the first is move your money from a main high street bank, none of them are good. We've said before NatWest is probably the best of them. but the others will invest very heavily in fossil fuel extraction. So move to bank that doesn't. You've mentioned Starling. Monzo Online doesn't. Nationwide Building Society doesn't. The Co operative Bank doesn't. So in Britain, that's who you'd move to. You move your energy supplier. 100 percent renewable supplier. Don't fall for the greenwash that some will sell you. If you see something like green tariff, that's usually a red flag, not a green one. companies like Good Energy and Octopus Energy, for instance, or potentially Ecotricity. are genuine about what they do, and you can therefore be spending your money on clean, green electricity. your diet to more seasonal, local, but most importantly, plant based. be clear, I'm not saying everyone needs to be vegan, but just try to eat more food that's plant based. If you're going to have meat, make it less frequent. Make it smaller portions and choose chicken or pork because it doesn't belch methane. So, those are good choices to make and you'll live more healthily too. You'll, if you move to just 200 grams a day more vegetables in your diet, your risk of cancer goes down by 4%. risk of a stroke or heart attack goes down by about 15%. People who are vegan have a 35 percent lower risk of, of heart disease. So, do that one. Think about your travelling. I know it's difficult, it's easier in London, I can cycle everywhere because I'm reasonably fit. And London is set up for it. And I get that you might have to use a car, but try to use it less frequently. to use walking or cycling if you can, or do your meetings online. mass public transport where you can. Take the train if you can afford to do that. And it's often cheap, actually, if you book a long way in advance. And try not to fly. I appreciate. I've got a family member who's sick in Australia. Maybe you just have to say, well, I have to go and see my sick relative. But if you can, try not to. in Britain is good. Eurostar, where I went in the summer, as you know, to do a bit of walking in the Alps, is eight grams of CO2 per kilometer because it's powered by nuclear electricity, as it were, France. Think what you're buying and from whom. So try to buy less. Most of us have too much stuff. I appreciate if you're poor, you may not actually, but many of us have too much stuff. We don't need new anything most of the time. And if we are going to buy those things, try to buy them from companies that are doing the right thing, or buy secondhand if you can. You know, I buy some books every now and again. I buy the world of books secondhand. It's great. Choose the brands that are doing the right thing. Measure your own carbon footprint. There's a carbon calculator, lots of carbon calculators online, which allows you to map a little bit better where you're spending your big carbon budget. I do it every few months. I'm pretty good now, still not good enough, and my big ticket item the last quarter has been train travel. Because I've given quite a lot of lectures. So, my focus now is going to be trying to do more of those lectures online, and so I'm sorry, can't train to Newcastle much as I'd like to, but I'm going to give it online. And finally, the really big one, is that business of motivating other people. Because you, listening to this, you are a leader. That's why you're listening to this. You're not a follower. You're a leader. So lead, do those things, tell people that you've done them, and encourage and help them to do the same thing. And the help bit is important. Some people are a little frightened of doing these things. So why don't you say, look, we'll get a bottle of wine, you bring your laptop over to my house, and we'll help move your bank account and your power supplier, and that stuff, and we'll do it together, and then we'll have a glass of wine together. Why don't we get that sense of community back as well? So those are your, your seven things. Of course there's a lot more about using less in the winter months. You can see here I'm in an unheated office and I'm wearing a t-shirt, a shirt, a jumper, a scarf, a jacket, and I do have a hat in my pocket just in case it gets cold. I'm perfectly warm. It might look slightly strange to viewers here, but I'm perfectly warm. It saves me an absolute fortune. My carbon footprint is low because every degree you turn a radiator down saves 7 to 11 on greenhouse gas emissions and build. So if you're listening to this in January about it. warm clothing, multiple layers. You've been on a lot of mountains down in your life too. You know perfectly well that you can be at very, very low temperatures below zero still be perfectly warm with Yeah, on. again, I understand if you're elderly or frail or that that's not an option for you, potentially. But for many of us, it is indeed. Well, Hugh, that's really helpful. I hope a lot of people are listening to this, and in between season one and two, you can make those changes. Write in, let us know what you've done. But, Hugh, I just want to finish off by saying thank you again. This has been a great season, and I'm really looking forward to season two. so am I, Dan, and thanks to you, because you know, you've done this for nothing to support doing the right thing again. So thank you for your leadership to Dan. It's been a real pleasure. Lovely. Well, take care, Hugh, and we will talk to each other soon. forward to it. Cheers, Dan.